Welcome back to The British Continental podcast, the show all about domestic road racing. In today's episode, host Denny Gray discusses the way forward for British road racing with Olympian Ed Clancy.
Last August Ed was asked to chair the elite road racing task force, an eight-person panel of experts tasked with the job of developing a series of recommendations for British Cycling to implement in 2024 and beyond. The task force was given a targeted remit, to consider the composition of the elite national calendar (including road and circuit), the challenges facing domestic teams and the opportunities to grow the reach and profile of domestic races.
Jon Dutton, British Cycling’s CEO, stressed that the task force would not be a talking shop, saying that there were areas where British Cycling “can and will make immediate progress."
After several months of deliberations the task force published its report on Monday, the 29 January. It contained 16 recommendations for British Cycling to take forward, many of them calling for further exploration and review.
Ed, a three-time Olympic gold medallist, is no stranger to domestic road racing. He was a long-time member of the renowned JLT Condor squad and was regularly at the pointy end of some the country’s top races, particularly when it came to crits.
In this episode, Denny speaks to him about the challenges facing domestic road racing, why he took on the job as chair of the task force, the task force's recommendations, and what difference he thinks the work of the task force will make.
The British Continental. Proudly presented by Le Col, supported by Pro-Noctis
Welcome back to The British Continental podcast, the show all about domestic road racing. In today's episode, host Denny Gray discusses the way forward for British road racing with Olympian Ed Clancy.
Last August Ed was asked to chair the elite road racing task force, an eight-person panel of experts tasked with the job of developing a series of recommendations for British Cycling to implement in 2024 and beyond. The task force was given a targeted remit, to consider the composition of the elite national calendar (including road and circuit), the challenges facing domestic teams and the opportunities to grow the reach and profile of domestic races.
Jon Dutton, British Cycling’s CEO, stressed that the task force would not be a talking shop, saying that there were areas where British Cycling “can and will make immediate progress."
After several months of deliberations the task force published its report on Monday, the 29 January. It contained 16 recommendations for British Cycling to take forward, many of them calling for further exploration and review.
Ed, a three-time Olympic gold medallist, is no stranger to domestic road racing. He was a long-time member of the renowned JLT Condor squad and was regularly at the pointy end of some the country’s top races, particularly when it came to crits.
In this episode, Denny speaks to him about the challenges facing domestic road racing, why he took on the job as chair of the task force, the task force's recommendations, and what difference he thinks the work of the task force will make.
The British Continental. Proudly presented by Le Col, supported by Pro-Noctis
Welcome to the British Continental podcast.
Speaker 1:The show shining a light on stories about British bike racing teams and riders at the domestic level.
Speaker 2:Ed, welcome to the rebooted British Continental podcast. Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 1:Yes, cheers, denina. Thanks for having me on and I'm glad you've started the pod again.
Speaker 2:Thanks, very much. Well, as I was explaining your fare just now, Ed, you're a big reason for us starting again. At least you've given us a brilliant excuse to get back on the airwaves again and you're a very respected person within the cycling community, a three-time Olympic gold medallist. But thinking about the task force which we're going to come on to in a moment, obviously you raced a lot in the UK on the roads, in crits and in road racing over your kind of long and distinguished career. I think you were on domestic teams from 2009 to 2019. I think if I've done my homework yeah, sounds right, Correctly and you kind of rode everything from the tall series to the Lincoln Grand Prix to the to Wotley and loads of other races besides that. From your perspective, just how important is domestic road racing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean from my own personal perspective, where do we start With the? Probably with the fact that I just absolutely loved it, denny, you know, and for me it was a big part of my success. You know I was a cyclist in general and you know, at that point in time we had a great, thriving domestic road scene that really kind of like boomed, you know, through that glory sort of period of 2012 and so on. But also, you know, for me personally, again, it helps kind of like underpin my success on the track too. And you know, looking back on my career, I feel very, very fortunate, more so now than ever, having seen things on the other side of the fence.
Speaker 1:You know, in this task force I feel really fortunate. There's so many hard work in passionate people, you know, in and around the sport of cycling domestically organisers, people in British cycling team owners, sponsors, commercial partners, all of that and you know it takes that whole operation to make it happen. And yeah, obviously, as we both know, it's kind of fallen on tougher times recently. But you know, the dream is we can get back to something like it was.
Speaker 2:I mean, just how, as you say, there's a real boob period. Wasn't there kind of around that 2012 Olympics? Just how different from your perspective has the domestic road racing scene become to those kind of glory days?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I'll tell you what I timed it well, didn't I? I'll touch on the track cycling part of my career as well. But I kind of rocked up, really, on the senior level racing around 2005, 2006, just in time for Beijing, and then we had a massive gold medal hole there and that was probably part of the reason that I came back to domestic racing in 2009. And I wrote for team Halfords back then and boom, we were straight into the tour series and that was a big, exciting town centre race series. That kicked off and that thing just grew and grew for years to come, and bolstered by the excitement and love around 2012. But, to answer your question, how different was that to what it is now? It's different, isn't it? I think the important thing is they're still passionate people left, right and centre, the riders, the organisers, team owners. That's still there, but it has taken a hit and whilst there's no one problem for the sort of recent demise, if you could point at one thing, I think it'd be cost. We went straight from this sort of coronavirus period into this big cost of living crisis. And where do we start?
Speaker 1:I think it's fair to say that British cycling isn't awash with money. If we look at local authorities, that's been another big source of income for the domestic road scene. I guess I work in that environment a bit now, this active travel commission, a job that I have you see that these local authorities aren't awash with cash either. In terms of the cost for competitors, let's start with bikes. They've gone up in price, but they haven't gone up with inflation, that's for sure. The cost of petrol, the cost of hotels, costs have been a big issue, you know. Again, if you look at businesses, marketing teams, the racing bikes is a luxury, isn't it? So I mean, guess what's the first thing to go when times get tough? It's bike racing, isn't it? And that doesn't matter what part of the sport you're involved in. But yeah, we've been up against it. But I believe in the future and I believe there's going to be better times ahead, denny.
Speaker 2:Good to hear. Well, hopefully we'll get a chance to unpick a little bit of that kind of issue diagnosis you've just given us there, ed. But take us back to kind of last year. You've had many big challenges over the years, but I imagine accepting the task of being task force chair was perhaps a difficult, one of the more difficult challenges potentially. But when did you, when were you first asked to become chair of the task force? How, when did that all become apparent to you?
Speaker 1:I think John Dutton, the new CEO from British Cycling. I tell you, it all started, like you know, in the very first week or so like John Dutton was appointed CEO of British Cycling. I'm guessing that was like summer last year, wasn't it? Yeah, and you know. I met him before on a trip with UK Sport out in Dubai. It sounds very glamorous, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1:And I first met him then he was still heavily involved in the rugby world and you know I spent half an hour or so with him. I think he might have had a meal with you know half a dozen or other so people. So I met him there and didn't really think anything else of it. And then he got the job as a CEO. So I dropped him a message, just been like hey, john, like great to see the new CEO. I knew he'd had a successful past in rugby so I just sort of reached out and said hey, if you ever want any help with anything, drops a line.
Speaker 1:And I think a week later or so I sat down with John and you know he obviously loves his cycling. He was very into it, very knowledgeable, and we spoke about multiple things, you know, active travel and the sport in terms of like where the elite team are at and the Olympic team. And there was one thing he was really interested in right back then in the middle of last summer and it was the demise or the other struggle that British domestic road races having. And you know, very simplistically he kind of said look, you know, if we look at the bottom end of the sport, we're doing all right. If you look at the upper echelons, like the Olympic team and so on, it would seem like we're doing all right. It's just kind of like this sticking point in the middle, this domestic road racing scene, which is which he knew had been thriving for the last 10 years or so. But he was also acutely aware that it was struggling.
Speaker 1:And again we sort of left the conversation there and a few months later I don't know, it was like August, september perhaps he sort of came to me, reached out again and said I'm thinking about this, creating a task force, you know, to have a bit of a deep dive into what we were speaking about. And at that point I was like all right, so you want me to chair this thing, right, john? And John was like, yeah, I think you can do it. But he also said I think you need a bit of support, you need a bit of mentoring. So, yeah, he sent me out to, I guess, like a performance consultant, and I've done a bit of chairing, you know, of meetings in a more informal way. But I wanted to make sure, and he wanted to make sure, that we did it properly for this. So I had a bit of consultancy performance consultancy with this fellow called Chris, and then off we went on our journey.
Speaker 2:So that's how it came about. Were you at all hesitant about taking on the task?
Speaker 1:Yes and no. Yes, of course it's only because I love it and of course you want to do a good job and you know I'm probably not one of these people that just has like never ending confidence. So from that point of view, yeah, I was hesitant, but also, no, I was like you know what, if we're going to have a go at this, let's do it and let's do it properly and it's. You know, it was a great privilege for him to reach out to me to have a go at this. And as soon as you know, the other seven members were announced, some of them like John Ehrity, phil Jones, steve Fry, joe Tinley, monica.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden I was like you know what? I just knew we had a good team and I knew that, whilst I was relatively inexperienced at chairing, I knew those guys in the meetings, like Steve, like Phil, that do it on a daily basis. I knew we had like the current and relevant eyes and ears with Joe and Monica. I knew we had Jess from RAFA that had a bit more of a creative understanding and vision that I never had as a cyclist and I thought, you know what, if we can't do it with this team, it can't be done. So at that point I started feeling a bit more confident.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's. I mean like, as you say, you were hesitant. You wanted to do a good job because you care about sport and I've always thought we needed something like the task force. But, on the other hand, no-transcript, for example, if I'd been lucky enough to be been invited on what a what a poison chalice it could be, because it's such a big responsibility, such a complex set of issues. You've got to try and unpick and we can all see Issues and problems with the scene, but actually identifying the way forward is is a is another problem entirely, and I guess your difficulty was not only that. But then you had to Marshall the I guess probably, I imagine, very strong ideas of seven, as you say, very bright, articulate, passionate people.
Speaker 1:How I knew, as he admitted, perhaps didn't have loads experience of chairing, how difficult was that to to manage in the end, well, yeah, it's a great question and I guess I fortunately had a bit of help from my friends and you know, I guess I people like yourself then it's had a bit of time and experience in like the business world and it was Phil Jones, really that kind of said Ed Very soon after the first meeting. It was, like you know, great, great first call. It was great to meet everyone. It was just the case of going around and having intros and understanding a bit about each of this background and so on. It was he describes as a wicked problem and not like a kickflip on a skateboard wicked but like wicked as complex moving parts and he said this is going to be a complicated beast, ed, so we need a framework and a structure for this.
Speaker 1:And then he sent over this template and add five steps on it. There were diagnosis, discovery we reach out to the people and I can go through all these in a bit more detail and then we had a debrief and then we sort of like we had a couple of days in the office in Manchester. We all came together and we had this big priority matrix of, you know, almost hundreds of potential solutions we could could have come up with, and we sort of refined these into a priority matrix about which is going to have the most impact, which was going to cost the least, and so on. And once we kind of unpicked things out, this priority matrix, then this wasn't easy, you know, trying to narrow it down into this whole like less but better approach 16 tangible, specific, attainable recommendations. That would be relatively easy to hold British cycling account to.
Speaker 2:You know, which is what we were Rather than giving him like is a thousand impossible challenges you know, let's work with what's realistic and attainable, and yeah, yeah, and I mean I'll come back to those, yeah, in a moment, ed. But I mean you mentioned in the or you did a little video when you, when the task force, kind of announced it's kind of initial diagnosis of the problems. I think it was like a little interim report, wasn't there last year? And I think you said there that there had been some difficult conversations. Yeah, can you give us a bit of an insight into what you meant by by that?
Speaker 1:I think what I meant by that was yeah, I think this is fair say. I honestly think that, at least myself, I had this Dream. That would almost be like great, with three or four meetings in and you know what? We've just found a big silver bullet here. That's going to be like. Here we go. This is the answer to you know all the problems, but you know it didn't transpire like that and you know I think the more experienced of the group Perhaps saw that coming and I think that was Wasn't disheartening. But that point, you know, this point of diagnosis, you know we kind of separated things out. I think I said this in the video we put out there. We kind of separated things out like sporting pathway and commercial issues and PR, media issues and we kind of.
Speaker 2:Operational. See other one. I think yeah, operation.
Speaker 1:We kind of realized not to use a sport, and now it was almost going to be a case like marginal gains. You know, trying to think of some things that were. Try to do a number of small things that give us something, a decent aggregate total, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Was that the case around? I mean you said there was some people perhaps more realistic or pragmatic going into it, because I think you know from the outside, a lot of us we're putting a lot of hopes on this task force because you know we're like you, we all care about the British road racing scene, we're passionate about it and we're desperate to see it start moving in the right direction after a few years of decline. I mean that obviously we'd all love to see some kind of silver bullet or something, some kind of revolution, kind of sparked new life into the, into domestic road racing. Before you're saying that's you know, the more you looked at it that just wasn't, wasn't feasible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that doesn't mean to say that it can't be turned around and you know it's absolutely possible that in 3, 4, 5 years we might have like an outstanding, you know, we might have a road race series. That is the perfect breeding ground for our rides that go on to be professional. You know, when we did our survey, believe it or not, it was over half of them after people racing in the domestic road race series have ambition to be professional. So I mean that be gold standard. If we had a great road series at a stage race or two, it had a better geographical spread, a better spread of terrain, if that makes sense. Basically, we kind of identified road racing is going to be about a place for riders to progress more than anything, because that's what they want it.
Speaker 1:Circuit series, yeah, like the tour series is gone now we know that Doesn't mean to say that we can't poach all the good stuff that happened there, you know, and if we have a bit of a Brand like a franchise model, something that's easier to sell in terms of Getting buy-in from sponsors, marketing teams, local authorities, because the circuit race series is different, it's entertainment and it has stood on its own two feet, unlike road racing financially. And yeah, it can do that again.
Speaker 2:It can yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I mean you kind of in the vision section of the, the recommendations document, you kind of spell out a Very high-level terms kind of what you'd like to see for the road scene and and the circuit series. But I mean we should probably come on to the recommendations. I mean first of all, as you say, there were 16 recommendations there and you said early, you know you tried to make them specific and kind of measurable Things that you could hold British cycling account to. How hopeful are you first of all that? What's your? I mean what's the response been from British cycling so far? How hopeful are you that they're gonna act on, on your recommendations?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good question. So, obviously, the task force you know our job is to go away and We've been on this big diagnosis and discovery journey and we've tried to co-create and co-design these recommendations within the realms of what you know, we believe to be realistic and attainable. Okay, now, whether British cycling choose to act upon them is out of our control, if that makes sense, and so I Can't prophesies the future, but what I can say is, you know, in the conversations I have had with John Dutton, you know I ultimately is up to him to say right, we're gonna allocate X amount of money or X amount of resource to sorting this out in X amount of time. That's up to him.
Speaker 1:Um, the Fact that he's put this task force together, the fact that he's turned up for meetings, the fact that he could have quite easily, when you think about it, he could have said you know what, won't we just go where the energy is, let's? Let's perhaps look at gravel racing or swift racing or whatever it is. But no, I didn't. You know what he's. He stood by this. So, you know, that gives me hope. But I also want to sort of temper that with the fact that It'll be spinning a lot of plates and it will Take time, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, a couple of things stuck out to me when the the initial press release came out about the task force. One was that there's a quote, quote from from John Dutton, and he said the task force won't be a talking shop. Yeah, and at the end of the quote it said they will. He's looking for a number of areas where they can and will make immediate progress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you get a sense that there will be, even from your recommendations, that they can and will be immediate progress? Because, because one of the things I've kind of observed look at the recommendations is a lot of them are actually recommendations, yeah, to British cycling to go away and do another review about a specific issue, or the things that are going to be difficult for British cycling to to enact immediately or Are slightly open to interpretation in terms of how British cycling tried to decide to implement them. So I just wondered whether you think it maybe this is a result of the fact that, of just the complexity of the scene and kind of the discussions you've had but whether You've identified any quick wins that you're hopeful British cycling might implement.
Speaker 1:So, if you look at like this isn't necessarily result of our, our recommendations I mean, it can't be because they haven't been released yet but, for example, like the, if you look at the 2024 road racing calendar, it would seem that, as a better geographical spread, there's at least one stage racing there, hopefully two, which is really important. That's what the riders are saying they wanted. So, whilst it wasn't necessarily down to us, it looks like there are positive signs and Totally, to be totally honest and this is yes, I'll take this, this isn't, this is my fault. It was me chairing the meetings and you know we could have had four or five, maybe a couple of that, in-person sessions at the back end of last year, hitting with some recommendations that that weren't fought through, weren't co-designed, weren't co-created with the race organizers, the commissaires, the riders and so on, and it still wouldn't have made a difference.
Speaker 1:You know, in 2024, these things do take time and you know we can sort of say like I mean, this is no secret. There's some great stuff in the tour series, you know, entertaining racing right, and we can have a look at that. And what made that entertaining Was the VIP areas, was it the locations, the racing format and you know sprints, jerseys, the sort of team aspect of it, things like that it's. But you can't just be like slap there, you go, copy that. You know this takes time. They've got to look into it. They've got almost have like a mini task force for each of these recommendations We've given them. And yeah, you're right, denny, you know what, no one's more impatient than me. But Unfortunately these things do take time. And yeah, like I said, you know, if there was a golden bullet, if we could just be like right, we recommend that Netflix comes and they make a story, they make a big fuss about this. You know, overnight, sponsors, partners, bike teams, everyone be getting paid a fortune. It just happened. But that's not realistic either.
Speaker 2:No, I'm, I'm, I completely appreciate that need and this, this is a really complex picture and and and it's interesting that kind of approach you said earlier you know this is almost a marginal gains approach to use, to coin that phrase, but so I guess the sense is that you feel like Acute, you know, cumulatively, if British cycling were to implement these 16 recommendations effectively and in good time, yeah, we could have a very different Scene. I mean, did you? Because when you, when you did the the initial All that video, you kind of mentioned those three areas commercialization, sporting pathways and kind of operational challenges. Did you then try to match those recommendations to those three areas? I mean, do you have a good sense in the task force that, for example, if British cycling were to implement all those recommendations, we would have a vibrant commercial environment for domestic road racing?
Speaker 1:These are tough questions. Good on you, denny. Yeah, yeah, I definitely think we've moved in the right direction. Yeah, I tell you what, though? This is, these problems and I kind of touched on the very, very beginning in terms of cost, it's almost like it's bigger than bigger than British cycling, it's bigger than the sport of cycling. Rather, you know, if the global economy takes a turn stuff stock market, the war in the Ukraine, you know things like that if all of that sort of like takes a turn, for example yeah, I mean, these things I'm starting to realise in my other role is politics, you know, such like a profound effect on smaller things, if you like. And all of that stuff is somewhat outside of our control.
Speaker 1:And thinking about this early when I was having my breakfast, you know, I think a lot of the organisers struggle with is cost right now. You know the cost of policing. It's been a big issue and it's been relevant throughout the task force cost of policing. But I'm like, well, let's think about, I mean, why is that? There's more cars on the road, there's more, you know, we have a, like it or not, we have system and process and red tape in 2024. And we also have massive safety concerns. So you can see these are almost like two ends of a sea, so it's very hard to bring costs down for the competitor. You know, when there's more traffic on the road than ever, more need for us to keep these things safe.
Speaker 2:Policing is an interesting one because I think, as you say, costs is a. As you said right from the outset, costs is one of the biggest issues that domestic road racing faces and I understand that many of those issues are to some extent beyond the will, go beyond cycling itself. But on policing, for example, my understanding is that that can be quite a significant cost at national level in particular where you've got, you know, rolling road closures and so on. It's interesting and I know Mick Bennett mentioned this last year after the tour of Britain saying you know, in Spain for the Welter, the Welter organisers don't have to spend a penny on race organisers, sorry, on police costs, because the government covers it all. I mean, had you looked at ways in which policing costs could be reduced, or whether even there's a role for, say, british cycling to start lobbying government, start lobbying MPs, to see whether we could take a different approach to kind of national treasures, you know, national tours and policing costs, for example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah you bang on and this is something that we brought up the the Welter did indeed cost absolutely nothing for three weeks and I believe the tour of Britain it was either five or six hundred thousand pounds to police that for a week, and that kind of shows what you're up against. Yeah, I guess we wanted to make sure these recommendations were specific to elite road racing, but yeah, that has been discussed and you know, I guess ultimately, if we are going to tackle that, that's a job for somebody above my station to go down and talk about in Westminster. But you know that's that's difficult. I mean, let's not forget that there was a plan for the motorist launched by our Prime Minister not too long ago. So, yeah, let's talk about politics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah obviously there are massive cultural and political barriers to to these things. But on the other hand, I guess if you don't lobby you'll never get change. And it's interesting that you mentioned sorry to keep asking difficult questions. You mentioned policing specifically and yeah, I don't think there's any mention of policing in the recommendations. So I just, you know, wonder whether you just felt that that was. You know, maybe it's just incorporated in one of the recommendations you got all the way whether you felt because of those, the bigger picture is just not something that.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I mean, cost was absolutely relevant, and I think it's back to that point about trying to make these recommendations attainable and realistic and we can actually hold British cycling accountable to them if that makes sense, and so something like this central procurement function. I think that might be the first recommendation. Is this idea that you know whilst going down to Westminster ain't something that Ed Clancy is capable of and articulate in a conversation with Rishi Sunak today?
Speaker 2:Don't do yourself down it.
Speaker 1:But what we can do is like, say, british cycling, let's have this, let's have workshops of best practice, let's work out who can do the cheapest barriers, let's work out what circuits require the least amount of policing, the least amounts of marshalling, and let's try and work with what we've got. In that sense, and by doing that, you know, we might not be able to change national policy, but at least we can try and control the controllables and bring costs down with what we know. Yeah, which that makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 2:It does, does, does, and I mean some of these, as I mentioned earlier, some of the recommendations. They obviously, I guess, require British cycling to go away and have a think or do another review, or their own print or interpretation to some extent. We haven't touched on this in the interview, but you obviously undertook a very extensive consultation process as part of the task force, which I'm not sure you initially intended to do. But either way, and I know it's been a very, very intense process for you all, you know you've all given up your free time to do this, so it must have been hard as well, but you must have generated so many different ideas that, in 16 recommendations, so many specific things that that British likely could potentially go away with and do things with them. Yeah, are you confident that, given how extensive the consultation was and how many specific ideas and recommendations you must have come up with beyond the kind of the overarching, these overarching 16 recommendations that British cycling has, will take that into account as it responds to this task force report?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right, we could have had hundreds, if not thousands, of like in a real sort of like specific recommendations and sort of like details on things. I guess, for the sake of In terms of like, outwardly facing recommendations, there's 16. In terms of like what we're giving over to British cycling, this 40. And I, you know, for public consumption. It just made sense that you know very, very few people are going to sort of like read all 40 in detail. But we tried to make sure the essence of all 40 of those were condensed and I spent a lot of time making sure they were condensed in this final 16. So I think everything is in there and I tell you what. Talk about a wicked solution.
Speaker 1:Like we really had to look at like the specific elite domestic road race scene. I, the circuit series, the road series 1.2 is 1.1 tour of Britain's, and because you could go down a massive great wormhole about the National bees, you phrasing the part that that plays in terms of its long term success. But you know it kind of came to the conclusion that, yeah, that's going to have a bearing on it, 100% it is, but that's another task force in itself. So, yeah, we really had to kind of stick to stick to the mandate, if you like, and just keep it specific, but 100%. This is a big beast of a problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I, yeah, I wondered how you got on with sticking to the mandate, given the fact that it is so narrow. But everything's interconnected, isn't it? As you say, from right down from, you know, youth racing through to big national tours. And you know I was interviewing Seb Otley from who's kind of running the Portsdown Classic or the Persepedal it was called before and he was saying what a massive jump it would be for him to organise a national road race from National Bee. But obviously that feels relevant because ultimately, I guess you've identified race organisers as, and succession planning as, really critical. So we want more people to come forward and organise national road racing. We don't want them to feel there. You know somebody like Seb Otley who's saved the Persepedal and putting on some great races.
Speaker 2:You kind of want them to feel that they want to put on races at the national level beyond, don't you?
Speaker 1:100%. I tell you what I know, seb. I did one of his races on a motor racing circuit in Goodwood last year, and I mean he's a perfect example of like what we were crying out for. Like you know, young, ambitious lads that love the sport. He loves racing his bike and, like you said, he's recently grabbed hold of what was Persepedal's race and he's renamed it the Portsmouth Classic. Now, right, portsdown Classic, portsdown Classic? Yeah, I saw an article.
Speaker 2:I tell you what I bet it was your article.
Speaker 1:He's looked at the course, hasn't he?
Speaker 1:And he sort of said like how can we make it cheaper? And like you know what route can they take where they're going to, like, cook down the marshals and things like that. And you know, whilst it's, you know everyone will consider it a shame that. All right, you know we considered that you had to do that to change the course to. Maybe that's just what we've got to play with. We've got to play the hand we dealt for now and you know, hopefully, you know, if the economy or whatever it turns and it is an event can build a bit of momentum, somebody will come along and give him 50, 60 grand in a year or two time and we can be like here we go.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. You can take your course where you want, he's got the finances for that. But yeah, I think Seb's great at sort of playing the hand that's been dealt and yeah, he's a great example of what we need. So good on him.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like there's enough in that, in the recommendations and what you hope British cycling will go away and do, to say, you know, get, give Seb Oughtley or James Hawkins or whatever it is who organized races out there at the national B level, to think, actually, do you know what? I'm going to give it a go, I'm going to put on a national road series race because it feels like it's a massive jump at the moment. What in the what in the report do you think will make a difference?
Speaker 1:to start, We've got this idea where we want succession for event organizers. I mean I hope this doesn't offend anyone but it's. I think it's fair to say it generally speaking. It's like an ageing population and you know again the expenses of offending someone. If you speak to someone like John Eritie, you know I love him and know him well over the years and he's got such a bank and wealth of knowledge, for example, and you know if we need that in a sort of race organizer form, we've got to make sure that knowledge isn't lost and there's like succession planning, there's best practice that they will know. You know over decades of trial and error and eventually success, that we've got to make sure doesn't leave the building. So we've given British cycling the task of that. So I do hope and they know that's important, they know that this information isn't lost and you know this kind of yeah say again, like the ageing population of the event organizers doesn't go, but there is a bit of hope there's.
Speaker 1:This Yonkbonk crew as well in Sheffield isn't there. And I tell you what I did want to. Well, I stood and watched one of their races just in my backyard, pretty much in home furflash year. And yeah, james Hawkins and his pal. They're really going at it and there is hope. There is fresh blood coming through and I may just like support from me. Ain't going to make it happen, but I sincerely hope that they feel valued and they're passionate enough about it to hang in there, you know, until time's turn for the bear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw your social media about that. It was great to see you on the side of the road for that event. And he's yeah, he's a real inspiration to me. James, I think we did an interview with him and actually he'd actually. So he got into road racing because of well, started organizing road races because he read an interview we did with Chris Lawrence, who's obviously on the task force, who said he said you know, people should stop whining about the lack of races. Just, if you're frustrated with it, just get up and do it. And James thought well, actually, I'll get up and do it, I'll organize a race and that, and that's how it all started. Good on it. I think it's an incredible inspiration.
Speaker 1:Despite the fact I've been in and around the scene for bloody decades myself. You know, if I was going to put a race on tomorrow, I wouldn't know where to start, and that, you know, is a big part of the reason we want them to have like a best practice playbook. You know, it's just a document that says like, well, this is who you approach, this is how you approach it, this is what a course looked like. There's easy to marshal, difficult to marshal, and so on. And you know, whilst that isn't the entire solution, you know that's part of it as well. So, yeah, like I said, there's no silver bullet, but we've tried to get everything in there that we think is going to nudge it in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, let's wrap it up in a minute. But I mean, just out of all those recommendations and everything you've got there, are there any that stand out for you, any that you think that you know absolutely must be implemented with great urgency, or ones that are more important than others?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is pretty topical and the Tour of Britain goes ahead, the women's Tour of Britain as well, and yeah, we've put that as quite a clear recommendation that British cycling does everything in their power to ensure that they happen. I think that's really important. And you know we've lost races, big races, tour of Yorkshire and so on, and you know, being a Yorkshire man, that's been a shame. Obviously you know sweet spots struggled. But I think if we can keep the Tour of Britain and the women's Tour of Britain like, yeah, you know, that'd be nice, that'd be something to rejoice and celebrate. So I guess that's one for the road racing, let's talk about one for the circuit racing.
Speaker 1:I think this not sure if I can articulate this as well as I'd hoped, but this idea that give it a go yeah, it's got to be about more than bike racing If we could have events that have community events, food stores, vip areas and perhaps even more importantly, like a franchising package, in the same way that if you go to McDonald's, you kind of know what you're getting, right, you've got the same golden arches on the tin, you've got to give or take the same products inside, and I think that'll make it easier to sell. I think it'll make it commercially more successful and I think it'd be much easier for the local authorities to absorb that hit if they're like, wow, the kids can have a go here and they can get on the course as community events. It's an event, it's not just A load of people turning up on bikes for an hour or two and taking off, and that is what I really hope will, you know, get a bit of buzz about the circuit series.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was interesting, isn't it, that you what look at the circuit series and there is a real Variety, I guess is the best way to put it, in terms of the way they're attended and the kind of engagement of the public and and I know that In some places it's easy you know, somebody was somewhere like Otley where there is huge heritage. That race has been a firm favorite for a long time, but I guess that's that's. That's the kind of thing you seem to be hinting at, kind of you know Something where it is a big event, everybody in the town's looking forward to it, everyone comes down for just a good, good evening out. Yeah, not because it doesn't matter whether you like bike racing or not.
Speaker 1:Exactly yeah, and I tell you what. I've been doing a bit of working around local authorities recently. They like this idea of legacy, so you know what lasting impact is it gonna have on the area? Like, is there, it is, they're gonna be more people riding to and from work because of this race. Is they're gonna be more kids that are interested in doing the bike ability session at school next week because of this, that legacy piece. So like, not just making a great race but making it a great Public event as well, it's gonna have a lasting legacy Going forward. That that's what's gonna be a sell to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's great. I mean, look, be great to see more events like that and hopefully, look, more local authorities kind of Getting on board. I know, as you said earlier, it's a difficult financial environment to listen. Ed, I could talk to you for hours about this because I'm such a geek and I would have been one of those people that would have read all 40 recommendations and a whole lot more if I, if I had them. But but I know that the the task force report is Primarily directed at British cycling and things that British cycling can do as a governing body. But you know, I'm aware that it's not just up to British cycling to turn the ship around and To help make progress. I mean, do you get a sense of what we could all do? As you know, fans of racing, riders, teams, the media, I mean are there. Did you come away with from the task force of kind of what else needs to be done outside of British cycling, what we can all do to to help create a more vibrant domestic road scene?
Speaker 1:I Tell you, I asked a brilliant question, man, because it's human nature, isn't it? You know, when times are tough, like it's like an automatic response, like people tend to want to blame someone or something, and I Think naturally that kind of falls to the governing body, that what British cycling doing about this? What British cycling?
Speaker 1:doing about this and you know I don't work in there, I'm not an employee in there or anything, and but I do see on a day-to-day basis. Like you know, they're stretched, they're trying really hard to to do things as well. To answer your question, what can we all do? I Tell you what we can. We can speak about it. We can promote it on social media in a positive light. You know we can have positive conversations about the road racing scene. You know when Just little things. You know there is political and public backlash to road racing road closures, town center events. You know if anyone can Articulate why this is great. You know why it's good for the public, wise, is good for our mental and physical health, why this reduces the burden on the NHS, whatever it is. Just try and paint cycling and road racing in a Positive way, in a positive light. You know we can all play a part in that and that costs nothing.
Speaker 2:Very well said. Well, just get down to Downing Street, ed, and say that's a to Rishi Sunak. I Mean, having said that, obviously it's not all down to British cycling, but these are recommendations targeted to British cycling. Fine, finally, I just want to talk to you about Kind of holding them to account. I mean, do you get a sense of, you know, how British cycling will be held to account, how we can Monitor and make sure that they go away and and implement these, these actions effectively?
Speaker 1:and Then the short answer is no really. It's kind of it's up to them. They've got the recommendations and the the powers will have to sort of say, right, well, these are the ones we've got budget for, this is our much resource and time and money we're gonna, we're prepared to spend on this, and I dare say they won't hit all 16 in year one, because it take a lot of time, take a lot of people, take a lot of money. I Can't speak for them, you know. I can only. I Can only say what I've said already, really, which is I don't think John Dutton would have even approached me, approaches conversation, and I think the fact that he's he could have gone where the energy is, if you like, you could have gone elsewhere. Let's put some money behind gravel racing, let's put some thought behind that, or Zwift, whatever it is, but he hasn't, and so hopefully, yeah, things will start moving.
Speaker 2:Smashing. Well, it's absolute honor to have you on the podcast, ed and and and also really appreciate no, I think everyone should, no matter what you think of the recommendations out there. I think we all appreciate all the time and effort You've all put in all the evenings, kind of I. For my understanding it was a very intense process, a bit of a poison chalice in a way. You know such a complex thing, but but so thank you for kind of taking the time to do that and let's hope, as you say, that pretty cycling, take action.
Speaker 1:No worries, thanks, danny, and thanks for having me on the pods and I'm glad you've kicked it off again. Good on you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to the British Continental podcast. Find out more news and views about domestic road racing on wwwTheBritishContinentalcouk.